Interview with Sergey Lavrov to the International Life magazine

Sergey Lavrov
Foreign Minister of Russia
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs
of the Russian Federation

Interview with Sergey Lavrov to the International Life magazine (August 19, 2023)

Question: The world has entered a period of confrontation between the concepts of global development: the position of Russia, China, and, in general, the non-Western position as opposed to the policy of Western dominance. Was it inevitable, based on the differences in civilizations, approaches to the use of force and international law, and understanding of the role of international institutions? In the context of the current challenges, what, in your opinion, is Russia's role and mission?

Sergey Lavrov: I cannot but agree that the concept of Western dominance promoted by the United States and the countries that obey it does not imply the harmonious development of the entire humanity. On the contrary, we have to deal with the constant desire of the Western minority for military-political and financial-economic expansion. The slogans change: they talk about globalization, then about Westernization, Americanization, universalization, liberalization, and so on. But the essence remains the same - to subjugate all independent players to its will, to force them to play by the rules favorable to the West.

Today, few deny that the Americans and their satellites are trying to slow down or even reverse the natural process of evolution of international relations in the context of the formation of a multipolar system. They consider it possible to "bend" the entire world to their needs using unsuitable, unlawful methods, including the use of force, unilateral (i.e. not approved by the UN Security Council) sanctions, information and psychological operations, etc.

In the West, people like J. Borrell are now at the helm, dividing the world into their "flower garden" and the "jungle" where, in their opinion, most of humanity lives. With such a racist worldview, it is difficult to reconcile with the advent of multipolarity. The political and economic establishment in Europe and the United States reasonably fear that the transition to a multipolar system is associated with serious geopolitical and economic losses, and the final breakdown of globalization in its current, Westernized form. First, They are frightened by the prospect of losing the opportunity to parasitize the rest of the world, thus ensuring their economic growth at the expense of others.

The rejection of the logic of historical development, which is not hidden by the modern generation of Western leaders, most of all testifies to their professional degradation and loss of the ability to correctly analyze current events and forecast trends. Another confirmation of this thesis is the fact that it is the ill-conceived policy of the United States and its underlings that has made the current aggravation of the international situation inevitable, despite our longstanding attempts to prevent it. I am referring to the full-scale crisis in European security, the blame for which lies squarely with our former partners.

Taking all this into account, modern Russia sees its mission as maintaining a global balance of interests and building a fairer architecture of international relations. Our views are systematized in the new version of the Foreign Policy Concept approved by Russian President Vladimir Putin on March 31, 2023. We believe that the universal priority should be to ensure conditions for the peaceful, progressive development of humanity based on a unifying agenda. One of the key tasks in this direction is to revitalize the UN's ability to play a central role in harmonizing the interests of Member States.

We are far from alone in this endeavor. More and more countries in the Global South and East are beginning to recognize and articulate national interests and pursue policies to realize them in the spirit of international cooperation. These States are increasingly advocating the establishment of a fairer world order by reforming existing or creating new formats of interaction to address specific security and development challenges. We support this trend, based on the clear understanding that this is the future.

Question: In 1987, while visiting Moscow, British Prime Minister M. Thatcher said: "I think there has never been a greater deterrent than nuclear weapons. That is why we have had peace in Europe for the last 40 years. Today, the possibility of using such weapons is widely debated in public discourse. Some think that the bar for its use in conditions of a threat to Russia's very existence is low. Others consider this approach to be completely unacceptable. What is your opinion on this matter?

Sergey Lavrov: Indeed, a lot has been said recently about the role of nuclear weapons in Russia's foreign policy. Let me remind you that the conditions for its possible use on our part are set out in doctrinal documents. It is important to understand that Russia's state policy in the field of nuclear deterrence is exclusively defensive. It is aimed at maintaining the potential of nuclear forces at the level minimally necessary for the guaranteed defense of the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the state and the prevention of aggression against Russia and its allies.

In the context of deterrence, the possession of nuclear weapons is currently the only possible response to some significant external threats to our country's security. The development of the situation around Ukraine has confirmed the validity of our concerns in this area. By flagrantly violating the principle of indivisibility of security, NATO - an organization that, I remind you, proclaimed itself a nuclear alliance - has staked on the "strategic defeat" of Russia. The "collective West" used our forced response to protect its external security contour as a pretext to move to a fierce confrontation using a hybrid arsenal of means.

In the context of the Ukrainian conflict, the great danger is that by escalating the situation, the United States and NATO countries risk a direct armed clash between nuclear powers. We believe that such a development must and can be prevented. We are therefore compelled to remind ourselves of the existence of high military and political risks and to send sobering signals to our opponents.

I would like to emphasize that my country is fully committed to the principle of the inadmissibility of nuclear war and proceeds from the premise that there can be no winners in such a war. Accordingly, it should never be unleashed. This postulate was reaffirmed by the leaders of the five nuclear powers in a joint statement of January 3, 2022. In the current circumstances, the document has acquired additional relevance - its logic implies that any military confrontation between nuclear powers must be prevented since it is fraught with the possibility of escalation to the nuclear level. In this regard, the most important task at this stage is for each of the nuclear-weapon states to remain committed to these understandings and exercise maximum restraint.

Question: Russia and the West have come close to a direct confrontation. Don't you think that the amount of over-the-top Russophobia has turned into a different historical quality? How would you characterize the threat of escalating tension today, and is it possible that the tragic pages of the history of the 20th century, which witnessed two world wars, will be repeated?

Sergey Lavrov: Indeed, the Western countries have burst after a couple of decades when they pretended to be civilized and adequate partners in the international arena. However, this situation has a positive side - the world majority has had an opportunity to see the true face of those who claimed almost a monopoly right to determine "universal values.

The Russophobic nature of many of our former partners, hidden under a cloak of hypocrisy, has shown itself today in all its glory, if, of course, one can put it that way. But let us not forget that it did not start yesterday. For years they have been cynically engaged in turning our neighboring country into a military bridgehead hostile to Russia, nurturing a whole generation of politicians who were preparing to declare war on common history, common culture, and, indeed, on the whole, on everything Russian.

Western capitals openly admitted that they had no plans to implement the Minsk agreements, which were designed to resolve the conflict in Ukraine. In fact, they were only stalling for time to prepare for a military scenario, pumping arms into Kyiv.

I think it is important to understand the main thing: the West wants to eliminate our country as a serious geopolitical competitor. It is for this reason that Washington and Brussels have unleashed a hybrid war against us. It is accompanied by unprecedented sanctions pressure. The Americans are trying to dissuade our partners from economic and any other kind of cooperation with Russia with both a stick and a carrot. Blatant sabotage is being used, as in the case of the Nord Stream gas pipelines being blown up at the bottom of the Baltic Sea. Outrageous efforts are being made to "disconnect" our country from the mechanisms of international cooperation in the fields of culture, education, science, and sport.

All these and other aggressive measures are aimed at to weaken, to exhausting Russia. They want to exhaust our economic, technological, and defense capabilities, limit our sovereignty, and force us to abandon our independent course in foreign and domestic policy. foreign and domestic policy.

There are about 50 countries that are part of the Ramstein coalition for military support of Ukraine and are engaged in an armed conflict on the side of the Kyiv regime, which, I would like to emphasize, does not shy away from terrorist methods of warfare. Ukraine is receiving large-scale supplies of Western weapons, including cluster and long-range weapons. NATO troops are involved in planning NATO instructors are involved in the planning of AFU operations, and intelligence.

In terms of value, the total foreign aid to Zelensky's regime in the year since the beginning of the Strategic Defense Forces exceeded 160 billion dollars. In value terms, the total foreign aid to Zelensky's regime exceeded 160 billion dollars, including military aid of 75 billion dollars.

Incidentally, according to calculations by the Washington-based NGO The Heritage Foundation, the USA has already allocated about 113bn dollars to Ukraine has already allocated about 113 billion dollars to Ukraine, that is, 900 dollars for each household, plus another 300 dollars for each household. Each household, plus another $300 in the form of interest for the servicing of the corresponding debt obligations servicing the corresponding debt obligations. These are huge sums, especially given the dire situation in the global economy.

Western leaders are repeating like a mantra that they will help Kyiv as long as necessary. Of course, fighting to the last Ukrainian is their choice, as well as the decision of Zelensky's clique. However, historically, the US has not had the best track record when it comes to supporting its allies. It is enough to keep in mind the episodes of abrupt termination of American military aid to South Vietnam in 1973 and to A. Ghani's regime in Afghanistan in 2021, and the fact that this led to the immediate fall of the authorities loyal to Washington. And even today's Ukraine is almost entirely dependent on Western financial injections and arms supplies.

Looking ahead, things are bleak for the Kyiv authorities and their handlers. The more the armed clashes drag on, the less willing Western investors are to participate in Ukraine's post-conflict reconstruction. Their faith in Ukraine's military successes and, in general, in the preservation of this state in any form and within any borders becomes weaker and weaker. Not to mention the fact that Kyiv's ability to service its national debt is in question. Non-repayment of loans will inevitably put an additional burden on taxpayers in Western countries, contributing to inflation and lower living standards.

The West should also realize something else: Russia will defend its people and its vital interests by all means. And it will be better if our opponents understand as soon as possible the complete futility of confrontation with Russia and move to more civilized, political, and diplomatic ways of ensuring a balance of interests.

Question: Several politicians, in particular President of the Republic of Belarus A.G. Lukashenko and Prime Minister of Hungary V. Orban, have repeatedly said that Russia and the United States should negotiate an end to the conflict in Ukraine. Do you share this point of view?

Sergey Lavrov: This logic seems to imply that Ukraine is a puppet of the Americans and that all important issues should be resolved with them. The problem, however, is that the US does not intend to end the conflict. As I have already said, their officially declared task is to inflict a "strategic defeat" on Russia, to weaken us as much as possible in military, economic, and political terms. That is why Washington keeps saying that all settlement talks should be conducted exclusively on the terms of the Ukrainians, i.e. based on the notorious "peace formula" of Mr. Zelensky. In our view, this is a senseless ultimatum position. It is impossible to demand that we accept the infringement of our fundamental security interests and the continuation of arbitrary treatment of Russians and Russian-speaking people in the new territories and on land controlled by the Ukrainian armed forces.

I recall that in December 2021 we made a serious attempt to convey our concerns to Western capitals by submitting drafts of two treaties - on security guarantees with the United States and on security arrangements with NATO member States. However, our initiative was from the start arrogantly rejected. Instead of negotiations, they threw all their energies into increasing the production of arms and ammunition for transfer to Ukraine, provoking further escalation of regional tensions.

Our approach is consistent and fully transparent. We have always said that we are ready for meaningful dialog, and we have spent many years and efforts trying to get Kyiv to implement the Minsk agreements. As you know, from the first days of the special military operation, Russia has been open to discussing ways of achieving its goals and objectives through political and diplomatic means. We immediately responded to Ukraine's proposal to start negotiations and conducted them until the Ukrainian side, at the behest of the West, interrupted them in April 2022. And later, on September 30, 2022, V. Zelensky, by his decree, banned negotiations with the Russian leadership altogether. Thus, it was Kyiv that sabotaged the diplomatic work at the behest of its external handlers.

Now multilateral meetings are being held in various cities, from Copenhagen to Jeddah, without inviting Russian representatives, in the hope of persuading developing countries to support Mr. Zelensky's "peace formula". Moscow is accused of "unwillingness to participate in the negotiations", and any arguments about the need to take into account the vital interests of our country are dismissed out of hand. It is [now] clear that this approach does not indicate the West's intention to negotiate anything with Russia.

Thus, alas, there are no prospects for negotiations between Russia and the West. Moreover, Western sponsors are constantly pushing the Kyiv regime to raise the stakes. And we regard the hypocritical calls by Westerners for negotiations as a tactical ploy to buy time once again, to give the exhausted Ukrainian troops a breather and a chance to regroup, and to pump them full of weapons and ammunition. But this is the path of war, not of peaceful settlement. This is clear to us.

Question: The second Russia-Africa summit was recently held in St. Petersburg. Following the summit, President Vladimir Putin of the Russian Federation gave a high assessment of both the current level of relations with African countries and the prospects for their development. In what areas do you see the greatest potential for cooperation?

Sergey Lavrov: The second Russia-Africa summit, held in July in St. Petersburg, confirmed the firm commitment of Moscow and African countries to cooperation and the expansion of the partnership framework. It also revealed the existence of a common worldview basis for our interaction in the form of traditional spiritual and moral values. Despite enormous pressure from the West, 48 official delegations and representatives of the five leading regional integration associations came to the meeting. Moreover, 27 countries of the continent were represented at the level of first and second persons. These figures unequivocally show that our country's independent foreign policy course enjoys the understanding of developing countries, and the efforts of the United States and its allies aimed at the international isolation of Russia have failed.

The core vector of our cooperation with Africa is assistance in strengthening the political, economic, and technological sovereignty of our partners. We are ready to share relevant experiences with our African friends to improve the sustainability and competitiveness of their public administration systems, ensure food security, and realize national priorities in the sphere of socio-economic development. Russia is perceived in Africa as a reliable partner in terms of assistance in maintaining military and political stability, settling regional conflicts, fighting terrorism, drug crime, and other cross-border threats and challenges.

The summit opened up prospects for increasing Russian-African cooperation in various areas. This applies in particular to investment, regional economic integration, agriculture, energy, infrastructure construction, subsoil use, information and communication technologies, healthcare, and education.

Special mention should be made of our pilot project to establish a Russian industrial zone in Egypt, which is intended to become a platform for the production and export of goods to other countries in the region, utilizing the opportunities of the African Continental Free Trade Zone.

Russia remains a bona fide supplier of energy resources, food, fertilizers, and medicines to Africa. One of the most sought-after areas of cooperation is the provision of humanitarian aid to particularly needy states in the region.

We traditionally pay considerable attention to personnel training. Nearly 35,000 African students study at Russian universities, and this number is growing every year. There are plans to open branches of leading Russian universities in African countries and establish other joint educational institutions.

Question: In the current circumstances, Russia's relations with the EAEU and CSTO countries are of particular importance. The dynamics of the development of cooperation within these structures are obvious. At the same time, our partners, particularly in the Central Asian states, are subjected to serious external pressure to force them to join the anti-Russian sanctions. In your opinion, how can this be countered?

Sergey Lavrov: Indeed, our partners in the EAEU and the CSTO are experiencing enormous pressure from unfriendly states. High-ranking officials from Western capitals regularly visit them for "consultations" on how to "counteract the circumvention" of illegitimate anti-Russian sanctions. If we call things by their proper names, we are talking, of course, about attempts by threats and blackmail to force our allies to abandon legitimate cooperation with Russia.

We understand that our partners have to be cautious in the face of the external pressure exerted on them. The mutual trade and economic obligations that we have between us continue to be fulfilled since they meet the interests of the parties and do not violate international law.

Naturally, our side is taking counter steps aimed at curbing attempts of destructive influence from outside. For example, within the EAEU, joint measures have been developed to overcome the consequences of the sanctions imposed on Russia and Belarus by increasing the stability of the economies of the Union's countries. This has already yielded concrete results. The volume of mutual trade and the share of national currencies in mutual settlements are steadily growing, the number of cooperation projects is increasing, and food and energy security has been fully ensured.

Here are some more figures. The EAEU market accounts for up to 40% of foreign trade of Central Asian states. More than 10,000 Russian and joint ventures are operating in the Central Asian region, creating about 900,000 jobs. In general, Eurasian integration serves as a key to preserving the economic stability of the EAEU member states and improving the well-being of their citizens.

This is also fully true of the CSTO. Our cooperation in that organization is based on the principles of equality and consideration of the interests of all its member states. We are confident that our allies take a critical approach to the recent increase in Western attention to their countries and will not allow themselves to be involved in plans aimed at escalating military and political tension.

In general, of course, we expect that in developing ties with third countries and associations, our allies in the EAEU and the CSTO will not take steps that contradict their commitments within these organizations. At the same time, it is not our rule to "teach other states about life" or to dictate how and with whom they should build relations. Russia does not forbid any of our neighbors and partners to establish cooperation with anyone, but always asks them to take into account our legitimate interests. I think they hear us.
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Sources: interaffairs.ru; mid.ru. IMG: © mid.ru. AWIP: http://www.a-w-i-p.com/index.php/aN80